Addendum to Kevin Lindeberg's submission- Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee

ABC-Radio 612 Drive 20 May 2002. Transcript of Interview between ABC Presenter
Mr Stephen Austin and Queensland University of Technology Law Faculty Senior
Lecturer Mr Alastair MacAdam re The Heiner Affair

Good afternoon Steve.
Thanks for coming in, now, you’re one of the few lawyers around who’s actually, for reasons of
humanitarianism, I think, sort of sought to follow this case more closely than most. What seems what’s occurred in this particular matter? The big question, everyone keeps asking, look you
know, if this matter happened, why don’t the justice bodies, the law bodies, simply look at it and make a finding?
Well, what seems to be the trouble with this is that what lies at the heart of this was back in the early days of the Goss government, documents were destroyed. And it’s alleged that that amounts to serious criminal offences under the criminal code. But it seems despite the urgings of the likes of Kevin Lindeberg and Bruce Grundy, that all the organs of government that are designed to protect us from the excesses of executive government, rather than carrying out their duties in a proper manner look for all sorts of spurious reasons to say that the executive government has done no wrong.

And I think I’ve had some argue to me that the executive government is the supreme lawmaking body in the state, therefore you can’t go any higher.
Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee Special Supplementary Submission The Heiner Affair 33
Well, that’s clearly they’re not the supreme lawmaking body, they like to think they are, but we have this quaint institution, the parliament, and it’s actually the parliament that makes laws. But it’s very, very difficult, if you and I were alleged to have done this, we would have been thoroughly investigated, no doubt prosecuted, and may very well have spent some time in jail.

Now, it’s established (ph.sp.) as fact that the then CJC did look at this matter and said look, there’s just nothing to answer.
Yes, well the CJC investigation at two levels was proved to be well, I think I’d have to say the word hopeless. One, they didn’t follow a document trail, and a couple of banisters later on led by Tony Morris QC did. He found most, if not, not quite all of the evidence, but most of the evidence. And the second thing is that the CJC used a clearly wrong rule for trying to read down the operation of the relevant provisions of the criminal code.
They tried to say that proceedings had to be instituted in order for there to be a perversion of the course of justice, etc. And very, very clearly, their reasoning, if it had been written, I commented before, in a first year law assignment, it would have resulted in a clear failing grade.

Okay, so a law school lecturer, a senior lecturer, has just failed the Criminal Justice Commission in their law exam. This is 612 ABC Brisbane, it’s a quarter to five, we’re pursuing the pack rape of a young girl in state care. Now, is there a statute of limitations in this matter? This young woman is grown up. She’s not going to have her matter heard in a royal commission. No one seems to care about her. She’s only, you know and I’m using this I’m setting up a scenario here.
You know, she was a young street kid at the time, a bit of a troublemaker, an Aboriginal girl. Who cares all these years down the track?
Yes. Well, you know, someone should care generally about these things. But the long and the short of it is that for serious criminal offences in Queensland, there is no limitation period. Members of the public

So there’s no statute of limitations in this matter?
No statute of limitations. There are statute of limitations if you’re overstay your time in your parking meter or you failed to lodge your egg (ph.sp.) marketing board return on time. They are generally a year, sometimes up to two years. But serious criminal offences there are no limitation periods. And members of the public would be aware of that because we have seen evidence in recent times of people being prosecuted for sex offences against children extending back into the ‘60s and ‘70s.

Exactly. Now we did have the Premier of this state, Peter Beattie, who is I think you know, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he is a good man but who points the finger at Archbishop Hollingworth for not pursuing properly matters of wrongdoing and child abuse within the Anglican Church. He seems to be remarkably two faced on this particular issue.
Yes. Well, one of the problems as I understand it he said Archbishop Hollingworth should have not looked at things from a legal point of view and taken advice from lawyers and looked at things from a more compassionate point of view and dealt with the victims accordingly. But as I
Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee Special Supplementary Submission The Heiner Affair 34
understand, the Queensland government is doing exactly the same thing as the Premier said the Archbishop should not.
It is relying upon a whole lot of technical legal points and the statute of limitations that do apply in civil proceedings to make it extraordinarily difficult if not impossible for the victims of these
victims of child abuse to get some form of justice.

As a layperson, as a person who has no background in the law, it looks to me like they’re trying to do anything possible to substantiate the original Goss cabinet’s decision to shred the documents and keep the matter out of the criminal court.
Yes. Well, I guess we can speculate on that. But one of the problems of course is it’s only in very recent times that we have become aware of just the serious nature of what was destroyed. Originally it was thought it was a couple of interpersonal disputes between union officials. But as a result of Bruce Grundy’s and other people’s investigation, it is clear that very, very serious matters were covered up by the destruction of the documents and the closing down of the inquiry.

And that’s the point, isn't it? That as a result of recent access to the last of the state government’s own records in this matter that Mr Grundy and others were able to get to the bottom of the fact that there was a pack rape of a young girl in state care and no one has done anything about it.
No. Well, that’s right. And the point that the Premier keeps making is he claims that these matters were being investigated to the nth [sic] degree. And nothing has been found. They have been investigated. Things have been found but the executive government hasn't promptly accepted its responsibilities.

Well, from what I’ve heard of the government and the government has made this quite clear behind the scenes that they somebody points the finger and says oh he’s obsessed. This is the person who’s investigating the matter.
Well, this is a well known practice in Queensland. It’s been highlighted by the Fitzgerald Inquiry. It was the tactic of Terry Lewis and other senior police to use terminology that is now being used against very well respected people like Bruce Grundy, respected people like Kevin Lindeberg who is just an honest citizen trying to make sure justice is done.

Bob Greenwood QC, who unfortunately has died.
Yeah. Bob Greenwood who unfortunately has died. Not to waste your time unduly but a story
a person who was a student of mine he was invalided [sic] of the police force because he’s making serious allegations against Lewis and his cronies. And it was said that he was paranoid. After the Fitzgerald Inquiry, the psychiatrist that had said he was paranoid listened to the evidence and gave evidence that indeed he was not paranoid.
His diagnosis was wrong and he just simply had a reasonable suspicion that something was wrong. Bruce Grundy and Kevin Lindeberg have provided a whole lot of evidence that there is something wrong but it’s just the practice of the Premier and his ministers to attempt to disparage these two people in my view quite unfairly.

I’am going to have to wind this up. But what could be done now, Alastair MacAdam?
Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee Special Supplementary Submission The Heiner Affair 35
Well, one thing that could be done in respect to this is the Anglican Church have talked about an inquiry. Well, that will only have limited jurisdiction. The Prime Minister has ruled out an inquiry. There is no reason in the world that the Queensland government could not appoint an inquiry of their own. It would have troubles in relation to interstate matters but it would certainly be able to investigate a range of these things that have occurred. They have not been properly investigated in the past and they need to be.

Thanks for coming in. Alastair MacAdam is the senior lecturer at the law school of Queensland University of Technology.

Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee Special Supplementary Submission The Heiner Affair 36

The Heiner Affair radio interview Alistair MacAdam

Heiner Affair News Articles

Print Media News news articles and reports >>>>>

Additional Heiner Affair Coverage

17/02/2011 Kevin Lindeberg Statement of Concern suggests fraud

22/06/2010 Statement of Concern II calls on Premier Bligh for inquiry into Heiner Affair.

22/06/2010 ASA and RMAA joint media release

Queensland Parliamentry Crime and Misconduct Committee

Other heiner affair commentary.


MP3/Video Interviews

Radio 4BC
Radio 4BC 01/10/2009
Radio 4BC 09/07/2010
Radio 2GB 30/09/2009
Radio 2GB 29/09/2009
Radio 2GB 24/06/2009
Radio 2GB 23/06/2009 Video
ABC Radio Richard Fidler Conversation Hour 17/03/2009
Brisbane radio 4BC 20/03/2009
Alan Jones radio interview with Piers Akerman.
Alan Jones radio interview with Peter Beattie
Alan Jones radio interview with former QLD union official Kevin Lindeberg

Download PDF Documents

Crime in the Community

Forde Commission of Inquiry

Inquiry into Harmonising Legal Systems

Tasmanian Parliament Joint Select Committee on Ethical Conduct

Standing Committee Legal & Constitutional Affairs

Independent Monthly

Heiner Affair Home

Queensland Child Protection Commission of Inquiry

News and updates from the Commission of Inquiry can be found in this News Section of The Heiner website.